Tim, if promise you 10 dollars but only give you three, are you seven dollars richer or three dollars poorer? Obviously you have gained seven dollars. O'Malley is RAISING the budget 700 million instead of 1.2 billion. Is that a 500 million dollar cut? It is only a cut in the INCREASE. So it goes with democratic math. The budget is 700 million dollars LARGER! Welcome to Doomsday in Maryland.

Cutting future spending is a cut, IF it's a reduction in value over the current budget.

Bob- can you spot me a link on where this is fleshed out?

I don't have a specific link but you can Google Md. state budget and look at the increase in total expenditures over O'Malley's term. The "cut math" I quoted is common knowledge taken from the Sun, local TV or radio. BTW, what do you mean by a "reduction in value over the current budget"?

Bob - what I mean is this.

If you spend X in the current budget on something, then cut that spending by Y amount in the following fiscal year without actually increasing X...

It sounds like what you were saying was that O'Malley was actually going to increase X by 10% as planned, then turns around and says he'll "Cut spending" by raising X by only 3% instead.

non-specific/generic example, of course.

Tim, Only a fool will believe that a cut in an increase that still remains a net increase is a reduction in spending. Let me help you with some first grade math. If Marty spends $10 for apples in 2011 and wants to spend $15 for apples in 2012 but ends up only being allowed but his uncle Mike to spend $13 for apples in 2012, how much more did Marty pay for apples in 2012 than he did in 2011? Answer is $3 MORE; therefore Marty did not really reduce spending, he increased, it but only not as much as he wanted because even his best friends knew he was trying to spend too much and should not keep increasing taxes so he can afford to increase spending so irresponsibly.

OWEmalley will not be happy until he is getting $.70/ every $1.00 you make. Not only by tax increases to incomes, cutting out deductions like our mortgage deduction, raising fees, regulation of businesses which drive our prices upo...which in turn means higher amounts paid on sales taxes, increase to the gas tax, increase taxes on utilities like his flush tax he proposes, higher tolls, should I go on? His policies are driving MD down the tubes, HE NEEDS TO BE RECALLED!!!! What they need to do is to cut out the freebees they give to ILLEGAL ALIENS IN THIS REPUBLIC, free housing, medical and dental, education, welfare, etc. It costs ALL TAXPAYERS (yeah even you leftists out there that voted for the scumbag) over $4Billion per yr and growing, because Montgomery County is bringing more illegals in. If they cut out all of that, it would giuve the state $4Billion right off the top and there would NOT be a need to raise our taxes more and more.

forgot to add this link which shows proff that OWEWmalleys policies are running people and businesses OUT! http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22658.html

Amen. It is a sham. And, if they stick it to us, I would consider leaving, too!!!

Neil B,

Maryland population has INCREASED by over 500,000 over the last 10 years (see U.S. census numbers here: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/24000.html). How do these REAL facts affect your argument?

This is the article I was getting my info from.
http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2012/05/02/maryland-ranked-no-40-for-business.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_baltimore+%28Baltimore+Business+Journal%29

Maryland ranked 42nd for its domestic migration rate. Between 2000 and 2009, the state’s domestic net migration was a loss of 95,775.

It was net migration not actual population. People who can are moving out.

Neil B.,

The author of the article does not cite a source. I am not sure how you reconcile a net negative domestic migration of 100,000 with a population growth of 500,000 roughly over the same period. Did we really make so many babies, or welcome so many foreigners? It just does not add up. But in any case, one way or another the population increased, so something positive is bringing people here and having them stay – and they are not push overs as they are generating income and wealth.

The people that have the means are moving out of the state. Like the millionaires.

Nope, sorry. Maryland has the highest number of millionaires per capita, taking over from the previous leader, Hawaii.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Most-Millionaires-Per-Capita-MD-133451103.html

The number of people who make over 500,000 a year (who gets taxed by the millionares tax) is not the same as the number of people who are own a 1,000,000 in assets (what they looked at in the is article). The people who make over 500,000 a year are moving out.

Here is an article about it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703976804575114241782001262.html

Well, the state comptroller's office now has the final tax return data for 2008, the first year that the higher tax rates applied. The number of millionaire tax returns fell sharply to 5,529 from 7,898 in 2007, a 30% tumble. The taxes paid by rich filers fell by 22%, and instead of their payments increasing by $106 million, they fell by some $257 million.

Neil B.,

2008 was the height of the recession. Of COURSE the tax paid by the rich fell. Did it increase in other states? I don't think so!

But yes, indeed. Maryland does have the largest number of millionaires per capita, so rich folks certainly and fleeing!

I saw a report on the number of millionaires that did not file any return the next year (e.g. they moved). IIRC it was around 20%

Maybe they should start CUTS with the $4.2Billion spent on ILLEGAL ALIENS IN md. Under OWEmalley, the republic of Maryland has become the brunt of all the jokes. OWEmalley thinks he has a chance to become president when he grows up. His tax and spend policies and raising taxes again and again, has put MD in a position where companies (Corporate CEO study) is a place where CEO's would NOT have their corporate HQ. Businesses have moved out, 80% of my income went away because of Omalley running high tech companies out of the area. A TAM of $480M in his first 3 yrs dropped to $124M in sales. Why? Because the companies either moved or went out of business altogether. Get the facts. http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22658.html

So you say. Where's the proof?

The problem is, he is not on the island alone. There are people who would vote for him again if he could run and those same people will vote for him as President when he runs. I would like to know when we started thinking if you make $150,000 a year married you are considered wealthy. Basically, you are penalizing married people. And I don't know about you, but I'm not taking home anywhere near $150,000.

Finally, something that makes sense. The biggest problem are the ones who voted him in to office. I knew before the election he was for bigger government, higher taxes, anti business, pro handouts to illegal aliens (which is a contributing factor of people moving to MD), he wanted to do away with ANY deductions like a mortgage deduction, etc. He is now trying to figure out how to attack our retirement funds to tax them or take them away and put into a federal fund, just like Obama has been saying. NOW in one session my income taxes are going up, not going to say how much but it is well over 5%. I am also waiting for a patent to go through and guess what, when that happens, the business will be in either VA or DE. OWEmalley has ruined this place, he needs to be RECALLED!!!!!!

If OWEmalley did not STEAL the money from the tranportation fund to put it in the general fund, ALL of these taxes would not be needed. He is raising most of these taxes to put the money back that HE STOLE...OWEMALLY NEEDS TO BE RECALLED FOR HIS CRIMES AGAINST THE PEOPLE OF MARYLAND.

The right wing loves their theocratic dictators.

And the liberals love their socialist dictators.

Me .....it's already happened. We are out numbered.

This is not taxation without representation at all. The people voted for the imbeciles who are enacting this legislation, so it must be what the people want.

In my life time California has gone from the best educated state to the worst. The middle class and upper middle class are leaving in droves. The wealthy (not super wealthy) are leaving even faster. Many large companies in CA now have announced they will not increase hiring within CA, all hiring will be out of state.

Maryland is following closely. One only has to see the massive growth in northern VA to see where all the defections are going. Our education system is dying because of the teachers unions, and the unfunded pensions liabilities are going to strangle the economy, since Maryland is already taxed to the hilt.

It is funny to watch the politicians squirm when you ask them "How much money did the last Millionaires tax bring in?" Bottom line was little if anything because of all the high earners who left the state.

Wrong. Maryland has more millionaires per capita than any other state.

And I'm not sure you understand taxation without represenation either.

Not 20 years ago...

@Able Baker: Taxation without representation -- "A situation in which a government imposes taxes on a particular group of its citizens, despite the citizens not consenting or having an actual representative deliver their views when the taxation decision was made."

I think I understand the concept perfectly; it's pretty much self-explanatory.

You elect representatives at the state and local level, right? You have recourse for grievances, right? You can enact referenda to address specific problems, right? I stand by my original statement.

@Abel, so tell me how I can affect change when people I DIDN'T VOTE FOR enact legislation behind closed doors (let's face it -- they went into that special session with their minds already made up and deals already made -- the session was just for show) that THE VAST MAJORITY of taxpayers (note that I didn't write, "voters") didn't want in the first place? Put simply, I can't. Is there an "opt out" for those taxpayers who were adamant that they didn't want any more increases in taxes and fees? Didn't think so. And THAT IS taxation without representation, so I stand by my original statement. In fact, I'd go even further and say that the people who don't pay taxes at all have more representation in Maryland government than the people who do.

@Bravo Sierra, opps I mean Able Baker...seems everything that comes from you is Brqavo Sierra. You say we have a recourse, BS. I call my representatives and they could care less what the people have to say. In MoCo we have a bunch of left wingers like yourself who only want CONTROL because it makes them feel big. All they care about is picking the pockets of the people of MD, including you people. YOU PEOPLE put them in office and they think that it gives them carte blanche to do to us whatever THEY see fit. If you look at the reps in MoCo, over half are known socialists. Also, on the expenditures of illegals in MD, you also have to go to each county to get the numbers from there. This is from 2009 but the costs have gone up. If you want the real numbers call your rep and demand it, but they will lie. They also want us to pick up the tab on illegals for college. http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/md_costsw.pdf?docID=4001%20

@M. Sullivan, but the little kids in the dumbocrap party like to be treated that way. I think that in order to be a card carrying member of the democrat socialist party you need to have 98% of your "grey matter" extracted, leaving the 2% for bodily functions and the ability to vote dem across the board without knowing what is truth and what is reality...all you need to know is to push the "D" button. It is no wonder they have a jackass as a mascot...i am glad I get out of there when I did.

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery
-Winston Churchill

@Rob
Hey Rob........... are you from "the" Beall family of Rockville and Moco. How ironic if you are.

Well said..

@Heidi...the operative word there is 'focus" OWEmally is unable to focus on REAL issues. He needs to have his ADHD meds increased. If you look at the new reports on tax ratings, MD is NOT fairing very well in ANY categories. This chart will show you why businesses are moving from and are NOT locating here. As you can see MD falls way short in EVERY category. http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22658.html

@Heidi...here is the answer to paying your mortgage, utilities, gasoline, etc. Sorry that you are in a bad situation and the likes of OWEmalley and other dems make it harder on the middle class. At least the conservatives are trying to make it better but the dems keep playing partisan politics. To you left wing nutcases out there, watch this video and tell me how your so called "change" you were promised is going. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

Chris,
PA is a smart move, of course you have to be careful which town and school district you choose.....the taxes do differ. I'm also looking into PA and DE, NC, SC and WV too. Won't be able to stay in my home state of MD because of the cost.

@Chris
You are correct Chris. My sister-in-law just moved to Hanover PA from MD and works in Howard County, MD. My nephew moved to Chambersburg PA from MD recently. My In-Laws moved to Delaware from MD, my own daughter moved to North Carolina from MD. Most of my long time friends have moved to either WV or PA or points south, not many from my life experience in MoCo MD left. My time is coming soon!!

@ Piotr, You forgot to mention that you "love" Martin O'Malley... Just saying...

Chris,

I try not to get caught up in the cult of personality. My wife thinks that he is “hot,” so that would tend to make me dislike him… …a guy thing, you know…

I am also not happy with his support of gambling – “just saying.”

But I did vote for him and, for the most part, am happy with the job that he is doing.

It also says they are cutting some tax exemptions for you. Who knows how much that will change.

I got 525 at 210,000 a year.

Neil B.,

The increased rate is not computed on the whole amount, just the amount over $150,000 (are you sure you pay your income taxes?). So, on an income of $210,000 the increased rate only affects $60,000 which, when multiplied by the .25% increase yields $150.

(To be honest, that amount seems so trivial that I agree with you that closer to $500 might be more appropriate – but that is not what is being proposed.)

I don't see how that is right.

Neil B.,
Yikes! In order to form an informed opinion about the proposed tax hike you do actually have to understand how progressive tax brackets work: each successive bracket is not applied to the total income but just to the part that exceeds the successive bracket maximum. (Otherwise, someone who makes $100,000, for example, would be treated most unjustly compared to someone who makes $99,999 – I hope that this makes sense.)

So yes, indeed, under the new proposal, a married couple reporting income of $210,000 would see a $150 increase, not a $525 increase in their taxes. That is an important distinction when trying to form an informed opinion about the proposal, isn’t it?

As much as it pains me to admit. I finally found the tax tables you are right. It is not as bad as I originally thought.

It might not be as bad as you thought but they keep taking little by little and it might not be a lot, but it's more money they are taking and doing what with? They play this game by taking "a little" like they only raised tolls by $1. When are we going to hold them accountable for all the $ they have and throw away?

I think what is important is to look at the $$$ per taxpayer in aggregate taxes. You will find that when you add everything up, it is that bad.

For example, look at the sales tax increase. O'Mally said "it is only a penny" and people gave in. If O'Mally would have said "a 20% increase in taxes on everything you buy" there would have been a revolt.

Words matter.

Stop look at "it is only $150/year" and look at the aggregate O'Malley tax increases, and decide for yourself when enough is enough.

No. I agree that they should not be raising taxes or anything at this point. They raised the budget 11% last year and they need to raise it another 3 this year? It is about return on investment. The state is not getting better with the government having more money. They need to spend within their means and stop providing ridiculous pension benefits.

AG- I agree totally. Like when they talk about Revenue instead of Tax money bled from the people. It isn't revenue. They are there to serve us. We are not here to serve them.

Piotr...By your name, maybe I can assume you moved here from a less fortunate country…maybe Russia? No wonder the People's Republic of Maryland looks good to you. The 'Millionaire's" tax was only the tip of the iceberg. It's all the other fees and taxes combined with it are killing the middle class working families.

Pitor, I'm sorry to burst your little utopian bubble but in this region individuals and families earning $100,000 - $250,000 are middle class. I will also point out that this special session is not just about increasing a single income tax rate. If he gets his way, Owe'Malley intends to also increase numerous other taxes that were not already increased during the regular session. Also lets not forget the impending "Roof and Driveway Tax" that was passed by the GA for each county to determine the appropriate rate to tax property owners who have a roof, paved driveway, or parking lot because he needs to refund the "Chesapeake Bay Restoration Fund" that he stole all the money from to cover all his past budget increases. If this was just about ONE tax increase it would not be a big deal but this is about ONE MORE among HUNDREDS of others since he has been in office.

Piotr,
Yes.....you are lucky. With the amount of money flowing your way it enables you to take "hits" and are most likely somewhat sheltered from financial struggles. It was also hard work that got you there and not luck.

You make enough money to live in an expensive to live area and that's fine, but to the majority of folks it's a little tougher.....and we are not just talking about $150 bucks...............it's the total package of burdens inflicted upon the citizen's........some good, some bad..........burdens to many none the less.

Why do so many folks leave MD Piotr? Especially come retirement age.......
By the way.......I love Maryland & Rockville too........born and raised here, I've been involved with Peerless Rockville, my family donated furniture to the Beall-Dawson house, I wrote some pieces for the 150th Rockville celebration, which Eileen McGuckian liked very much by the way.

I've been involved with Richard Montgomery Alumni operations, Houston (Eddie) Hancock (the Rockville artist) is a good friend of mine. All this makes it especially tough to know that I can't stay here anymore because of the ever rising cost of living here.
Let's put it this way.........if all it cost was an extra $150 bucks to stay, then I wouldn't be going anywhere. I know you are smart enough to realize there is more to it than that.

I am not thinking about myself and taking a few hundred dollar hit. I do not look at how many times I won't be able to take my family out to dinner or purchase something that is needed, etc. I think about the middle class people that have to pay higher prices at the gas pump because of higher taxes and OWEmalley wants more, higher prices and taxes at the store for food and clothing, get taxed on services that they were not taxed on before, I am not a smoker but the people that do, it is your choice and the price keeps going up on you, to the beer drinkers the tax increases there, to the people who belong to health clubs having to pay a tax on that...should I go on? The middle class is hit hardest because of tax increases, you have to look beyond the income tax increase. The high taxes on businesses in MD, the cost is high because the business needs to make that money up somewhere. Heck I just purchased another TV on a trip back from up north and stopped in DE, saved enough sales tax to purchase the mount for the wall. I was very happy about that. FU OWEmalley

btw, when my new patent goes through, I WILL NOT have my new business in MD. Either VA or DE...also, 3 more yrs for me in MD until my son graduates from high school and then, sell the house and get out of MD.

Teresa there is this little thing that comes out every ten years called the US Census Report. Sorry if the facts fail to support your belief that Maryland is a liberal utopian fantasy land.

Census figures don't support this.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/24000.html

Theresa,
I do not believe Maryland or any state for that matter will publish that data. It might be out there on the Internet somewhere.

My comment was taking into account the earlier comment made to "Chris". I did not personally interview the many, many family members and friends that have left Maryland for greener pastures, but I do know this......the cost of living here had become too much for them.

I hear this over and over from friends and co-workers and there friends, I don't think that they are all lying.

Also....I can speak for myself.........I and my wife have to leave also, we can call that personal experience. Sorry, but I'm not going to reveal my income level.

Now if you can't except that because you feel this might reflect negatively on some politcial party........then so be it.

When it comes to time for you to retire..........which state will your money go farther in............taxes etc. ?

Now I just sat down with my TSA/Retirement advisor 2 weeks ago. Most of her clients are here in MoCo & Howard County. She's seeing people leave in large numbers........she lives in PA!!!!

I hope you choose wisely when it comes to be your time..........

Yes, yes. The Man is suppressing all this data that supports my position.

Piotr,
I totally understand your viewpoint. A couple of points though, #1...do we know for sure that those who are bellyaching have more? #2.....when does it end? I think there is a perception that there is NO end to the rising cost of everything......and I mean everything.
As for disgust.............there is more than enough of that to go around these days :)

Try living on a fixed income of $17,000 in this state.

Blue Sky - with respect - you can't live in a bog in Mississippi on 17K a year.

You make assumptions Piotr…the majority of us who are "bellyaching" as you so nicely put it, are not wealthy and are simply average citizens who are trying to keep our heads above water. We also happen to love Maryland and do not want to leave but the more taxes and fees we must pay will force us out of our homes. The more of us - citizens and businesses - who leave the state, the more YOU and the other income-producing upper middle class people will be forced to pay for the 'great' schools, roads, parks, social services (including the freebies enjoyed by all the illegal immigrants here) that you currently enjoy. I for one do not want to leave this great state but the Democrats who control it are forcing my hand.

And when I go….that means you will pay more.

Hawkeye,

The point is that if you are in the middle class, the proposed taxes will have no adverse effect on you (other than that you will perhaps benefit in some way).
I too hope that you stay in Maryland, but if you choose to move away, Maryland will survive it. Our population is growing, not shrinking (it grew by over 500,000 net new residents in the past ten years), and includes more millionaires per capita than any other state in the nation.

The majority seems to like O’Malley’s policies – we did reelect him. But if you prefer to live in a state where you are taxed less (and have poorer services), there are plenty of those around to choose from (Virginia is one!), but I know that they are not for me.

@John

I hear ya John and yes............it can reach 10%. Good luck with your relocation, it's a sound financial move.

Maryland is already prosperous. We have one of the highest median incomes, the largest per capita population with advanced degrees and the most millionaires per capita in the United States.

The problem with living in PA is that taxes are still high, the schools are terrible and there aren't as many jobs.

re: "Maryland is already prosperous..."
Yup... California used to be able to make that claim. Then their liberal/progressive government drove them into the pits. Maryland will be following suit with the next 10 years if things don't change

@Able Baker...your comments are more like Bravo Sierra. Bottom line, no matter how you look at this chart MD is at the bottom 10 of each category. Guess you can call this the California of the east (loaded with nutcases in the democrat party). OWEmalley is a jerry brown wannabe. Heck, PA overall ranking is a hellava lot better than MD. PA 19th to MD 42nd http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22658.html

The only thing that chart shows is the Maryland tax rate. It doesn't show how good MD schools are (#1 in the nation), it doesn't show how educated our people are (highest number of advanced degrees per capita) and a whole host of other things that make Maryland a great place to live. Taxes pay for things like roads, schools and public services. There's plenty of low tax hellholes. Feel free to seek one out. I hear Mississippi is pretty cheap.

@(UN)Able Baker, WOW are you brainwashed or what...opps, you are brainwashed. Too bad you cannot think for yourself, you only spew back what you hear on PBS and other nutjob media outlets. This is how you find the truth, you look it up. MD TAXPAYERS ARE FUNDING CAMPAIGNS FOR CORRUPT DEMS...IN KICKBACKS FOR SOCIALIST GROUPS. Two articles (one) showing how we are funding these groups and (second)showing the ties of the leader of the group to socialists and how they think therre is a socialist takeover in the USA. If they want to bring it to my neighborhood, I say bring it on...doubt if you would make it out. http://www.aim.org/special-report/casa-de-maryland-the-illegal-immigrants-acorn/ http://themilitant.com/2007/7145/714503.html

and UNable NEVER comes up with ANY facts to substantiate any claims, which is typical. Hell, I have had a MoCo guidence counselor tell me that 80% of the kids that graduate from MoCo schools have to take remedial math or science classes, even when attending 13th grade at Mont College. Hell, I never heard the term "remedial class" until I came to MD and got involved with my kids in their schools. Sounds to me that UNable missed a lot of classes.

Piotr,

Yes.......I'm familiar with the playbook Piotr. In other words.............there is "never" an end to rising taxes. In effect the salaries we enjoy are bascially a mirage. I think you and I have idealogical differences.....

Piotr....I was better off in 1965 making 95 cents an hour at the old G.C. Murphy's in downtown Rockville. End of story

Gosh Piotr that's just about as deceptive as the claim that tax increases are necessary for programs for the poor. We all know right now public employees want thier raises and their fat pensions...that's where the money will go.

Karl,

I think that we are on the same page. I am all for slightly increasing taxes on only those of us who are already comfortable to make sure that our public employees (you know, teachers, police, fire fighters) are fairly compensated (and have pension plans that will allow them to stay here in Maryland when they retire).

How wealthy are you Karl? Are you below the $150,000 family threshold (in which case you will not be affected) or are you more fortunate than that and worried about keeping a couple hundred bucks extra next year?

"Our Workforce" WOW Pitor ... way to sound just like the liberal elitist you are with your plantation owner mentality of not wanting to lose your precious workforce because it will become too expensive for them to live here to perform those menial tasks like mow your lawn, or clean the dishes at your favorite restaurant.

Are you insane? You think a great standard of living is obtained by gov't stealing a lot in taxes? To the extent there is any prosperity and a high standard of living, it comes IN SPITE OF gov't, not because of gov't.

Gov't is like a leech. A parasite. It produces nothing. It subtracts. It does not add. Of the things it does, even the necessary things it does, it does nothing well. Nothing.

It's fools like you that aid and abet the liberal moron politicians of this state as they drive the productive people out and destroy the entire state.

Who are you to say that those that YOU consider wealthy are able to contribute more? Contribute? Why do you use such a word? There's nothing voluntary about taxes, even for useful idiots like yourself. I'm certain that you try to minimize your tax burden, and I bet you've never once voluntarily submitted a few additional dollars over and above your legal tax. I bet you've never told a sales clerk to "keep the change...send it to the state on top of my legal sales tax." I have no idea what your income is, but I guarantee you that you could survive if I cut your income in half. Your life might change, but you'd survive. People in many parts of the world survive on a great deal less than half of your income, whatever it is. So...I guess YOU can afford to pay more too. According to me.

You want to see what happens when you drive out the productive class? Take a look at Baltimore City or Detroit or California.

@Piotr, spoken like the true communist that you are. Have you paid your "dues" this year to stay current. What you are saying is exacly what the communists wanted, "Planners from the Communist era wanted to provide large quantities of affordable housing and to slash costs by employing uniform designs over the whole country. They also sought to foster a "collectivistic nature" in the people." Keep your "comrad workers" close by. The next thing you people are going to want to try is restrict REAL AMERICANS from freely travelling about, oh wait, you are trying that now by the high price of gasoline, didn't that jackass in the white house say he would like to see it go up gradually to european levels and his buddy secretary of energy say he would like to see it at $9/gallon. So tell me, how is your change that you were promised going now? Ask this woman what she thinks...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

So let's see some information that supports that. So far you've presented none.

Terry,

Will all of us who make more than $150,000 family annual income be protesting or did we manage to play the less fortunate so well that they will be doing our dirty work for us, against their own interest?

Also, please help me out here: how is O’Malley’s doing a bad job as governor helping him with his national ambitions?

I am not so well schooled in this, but it would seem to me that if O’Malley did a good job as governor, that would help him in national politics and if he did a bad job as governor that would hurt him.

Protesting does nothing! I want to see the Republican party stand up and be counted by boycotting this "Special Session".

Chris,

Aren’t not showing up for work, and being counted, mutually exclusive? Just saying…

@Piotr Gajewski

Senator Barack Obama certainly didn't do a veritably good job as Senator unless voting "present" counts. And look how poorly he's doing as President.

O'Malley doesn't have to succeed in Maryland as Governor he has to pass the liberal/progressive litmus test and be acceptable to Democrats.

Hello Prince Hans-Adam,

Thanks for clarifying.

I cannot imagine that Mr. O’Malley is worried about his liberal bona fides. To the contrary, he might do well to burnish his moderate credentials if he is serious about contending for the White House. Who in the Democratic Party will be far to the left of him? Secretary Clinton? Vice President Biden? Governor Cuomo?

As far as President Obama’s job performance: presently, I much prefer him to President Bush. And so far, I am having a difficult time discerning what new proposals Governor Romney is advancing that differ from those that Mr. Bush pursued.

Terry…THANK YOU….I cannot believe the audacity of OweMalley and the other two 'M's' when it comes to strong-arming the democrats into voting for whatever suits their private agenda. It's just like the president…they don't care about the working class and they don't care about the poor. The only thing they do care about is padding their own retirement coffers and furthering their careers. Too many people buy into the adage that if you don't want to pay more money to help more indigents, you must be evil. I say that a government that takes my money without my permission is evil.

Government should protect our borders and provide an environment where people can make a decent living….life liberty and the pursuit of happiness….

Leave the social programs to the churches and the education to the local jurisdictions.

Ummm Pitor, Your own words ... "Will all of us who make more than $150,000 family annual income be protesting or did we manage to play the less fortunate so well that they will be doing our dirty work for us, against their own interest?"

So I assume you are talking about when the Unions take bus loads of people down to Annapolis being paid $10.00 and a couple slices of pizza FOR THE DAY to wear their t-shirts, hold their signs (that many cannot read themselves), and protest about an issue they know nothing about that is not OK? Because that is a very common practice with your liberal elitist brethren.

Chris,

As difficult as it seems, the only way for the Republican Party to become more relevant in Maryland is to sign up more Republicans. And the only way to do that is for the Party to propose ideas that capture the imagination of larger numbers.

I would suggest a thoughtful, respectful, one foot in front of the other approach. In other words, I am not convinced that staging boycotts will lead to more followers. I guess I see our population as a little more civilized than that. But maybe I am wrong.

Maryland is sometimes hurt by being a one party state and sometime helped. When problems need quick attention, having a strong single party might be good. But when struggling with different approaches on issues, a little gridlock might serve us well also (although, come to think of it, the Democrats have been quite successful in delivering some gridlock of our own).

As I said in a comment above: I really love Maryland the way it is configured presently. But I realize it is not for everybody.

That's the one part about Maryland that bothers me the most.
There's no balance, over the longer term, of management.

I'm neither Republican or Democrat minded across the board.

Like you, Piotr, I am relatively happy with the state overall. I have no plans to move. I do feel as though there's too much spending in this state though. Just for one year I'd like to see the budget not actually go up.

Tim,

The budget going up is largely a function of population growth (Maryland added half a million new residents over the past decade – see: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/24000.html) and also higher costs. Government pays utilities, etc. and those costs go up. And with more people to serve (more kids in schools, for example) the budget surely must increase.

The key is to try to balance the budget in such a way that has the new arrivals covering the increased costs so that taxes do not have to increase on those of us already paying in. It is usually achievable, but in a poor economy (or through poor management) the budget can get out of balance.

As long as the needed correction is only slight and only affects those who make more than $100,000 (families more than $150,000), and even then only slightly: I can’t get too worked up about it.

Piotr: The thing is, we all KNOW there's waste in government. I believe there's tons of it in Annapolis.
- I can see the population over the past 11 years (2000-2011) has increased by about 11%.

- In 2012, Maryland spent 34.2 billion in their budget.
- In 2008, just 4 years ago it was 30 billion. http://dbm.maryland.gov/agencies/operbudget/Documents/2008/fy08_budgethighlights.pdf

That's a 13% spending increase - in just 4 years - that more than covers the population growth of the past 11 years.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's a dirty little secret Republicans won't like though.
Take a look at the state spending under Bob Ehrlich. It shocked me.

FY2004 – 22.8 billion in spending
FY2007 - 29.6 billion in spending!

Over Ehrlich’s 4 years, state spending was increased by a whopping 30%!
Comparatively, over 5 years, O’Malley’s budget has increased from 30 billion (FY2008) to now proposed 35.5 billion (FY2013).
Not only is it WAY lower percentage wise (15% to 30% under Ehrlich) but even at raw numerical value, it’s 1.5 billion LESS in spending over the years compared to Ehrlich’s time in office.

Tim,

Good analysis. But I disagree with you about “waste.” Waste does prosper during boom years, but we have now had several recessionary budgets, so that all the obvious waste has been pretty well disposed of. What are left are choices where one person’s “waste” is another person’s most important program.

I work in the arts industry and will defend to the death the importance of Maryland’s arts funding, but I know plenty of people who consider that “waste” top to bottom. And so goes.

In the end, the amount spent on such programs is miniscule compared to the amounts spent on the programs that most would agree are important (education, public safety, etc.) so that I can’t get too worked up over a slight tax increase on families making more than $150,000 per year to close the budget gap (as opposed to fighting over the relative importance of numerous nickel and dime programs).

Piotr: Waste is too vague a term. I did not intend to make personal judgments about specific things themselves the State supports (or doesn't). That would be an endless, largely circular debate.

My definition of waste above, for simplicity sake, can be put into two categories:

1) Duplication of Inefficiency of services delivered

Do you have 2 or more departments that do the same thing, or so similar that they can be merged - and reduced - into one? Why do we need 50 state employees (just throwing out a number) when if they actually work hard, 40 can do the job fine.

2) Corruption in policies/spending

If you or I priced out item X, it'd cost us Y. Why is it that when our government buys the same item, they pay Y + Z? It's the classic examples of how easy it is to spend other people's money.

Cumulative inflation between 2008 and now is about 8%, leaving aside any population growth.

Jeff,

You ask good questions. And I don’t know what the right balances are in terms of public employees’ compensation and pension levels.

I do know that I can’t get too worked up over having to pay $150 more in taxes next year if our leaders figured out that the answers to your question require that I do.

My dad actually moved to Maryland (from California) to retire. But retirement location choices will be dictated by many factors. Certainly retirement dollars will stretch farther in other areas and there is no quick fix for that.

It is amazing what you can find on the internet. Piotr is running for the Mayor of Rockville. He needs the support of the O'Malley political machine to forward his political career.

We need to dismiss Piotr as just another political hack for O'Malley.

AG,

Old website. I used to be on the Rockville City Council 2007-2011. I gave that up to run for Mayor in 2011. Didn't win (you will be surprised to know that I was more fiscally conservative than my opponent who prevailed). Now, am quite happily out of politics. (Not anyone's "hack" :)) (I don't have or seek a "political career.")

Roughly translated from right-winger to English, AG said "I can't rebut his arguments, so I'm going for the ad hominem instead."

On the contrary, MD has a history of punishing Democrats who fall out of line. Just look at people like Clarence Mitchell. He supported Bob Ehrlich, and as a result was redistricted out of office. You have to question what any Democrat says because you know they cannot speak the truth, they have to fall in line behind the machine.

And to support Piotr Gajewski, he probably lost his election because he was too fiscally responsible. The Democratic Machine probably punished him for not falling in line

I agree with you. They always say they will take it away from teachers and fire fighters. There has to be other places to cut.

California's problem is that they require a supermajority to raise taxes and property taxes are capped, with no regard to inflation. So they can pass all sorts of spending bills, but are almost completely unable to raise revenue to match them. California's education system used to be first class, but given their complete inability to adjust tax rates, it's going down the tubes.

California just added a "millionaire's tax" in the last year or two. I know Gov Brown is proposing new taxes now. I believe (but could be wrong) that the tax cap is only on real estate.

Colin,
To someone who makes $20,000 per year, $154 is a lot of money. To someone who makes $200,000 per year, $154 is not so much. This is why fees, in my opinion, are inferior sources of revenue to taxes. If it were a tax it could be implemented progressively: the person who makes $20,000 might only be charged $100, while the $200,000 earner might pay $225 - or something like that.

The good news about what is being proposed presently to balance the budget is that it is indeed a progressive tax that will have zero effect on those making less than $100,000 or couples making less than $150,000.

Not asking the middle class to bare any of the cost to close the budget gap is the right decision. Asking those who have a lot to contribute a little bit more seems the right way to go.

As far as O’Malley needing to go: he is, of course, term limited so he WILL go in 2014.

Joe: A relatively flat tax system would do this country well. You couldn't really have a completely flat tax system from a practicality standpoint, but I agree even the poor should pay 'some' taxes, even if it's low.

If you had a flat tax of 10%, a person making 100k would still pay more than someone making 10k. Isn't that still "punishing someone for succeeding?"

No Able ... not at all. In fact it is encouraging more people to do their best to succeed because they will still have the same percentage of their income going towards their taxes. That is the beauty of a flat tax or "FAIR" tax system. Liberals like yourself keep proselytizing how we need to raise taxes on the rich to make it more "fair" for the poor and use the so called Buffet Rule as your holy grail of proof. On the other hand, conservatives say why not lower the secretary's tax rate? If liberals are supposed to be out to help the poor, working, and middle class families then why not lower their tax burdens instead of always focusing on raising everyone's taxes with one hand while claiming they are only raising taxes on the really evil rich people. Many of whom own the businesses that employ the people who make the lowly secretary's level of income that is still over burdened with tax after fee after tax after toll after tax here in Maryland. I am still waiting for Owe'Malley to figure out how to tax air consumption and sell it to the people as being "for the children."

Tree,

Good news! If your family only takes in $150,000 the new proposal does not affect you at all!!! The folks who make more than you, have your back. :) Feel better?

As far as where the money is going. Of course, all of that info is readily available.

"The folks who make more than you, have your back. :) Feel better?"

Not at all Piotr. I don't care it it's only $1.50, Taking money from only 16 percent of the people is equal to buying the votes of the rest in my opinion. I don't mind paying more, if necessary, myself. But I don't like the idea of doing this selectively.

Joe,

That’s a whole other discussion. Presently the vast majority of Americans feel that a progressive approach to taxation is fairer than a flat tax approach.

Take an example of someone who makes $20,000 versus someone who makes $200,000: under a flat 10% tax; the first one pays $2,000 in taxes, leaving him $18,000 to try to sustain himself, and the second one pays $20,000, leaving him $180,000 to pursue his upper class life.

Some (including I) feel that the one who makes $200,000 is much more able to pick up more of the tax bill; for example, the $200,000 earner could pay $20,300 while the $20,000 earner pays $1,700. The government still takes in the same amount, the low income person gets some help (after all, $300 to him is a much more significant amount than to the high earner) and the higher income person pays just a little bit more, keeping $179,700 – still a staggeringly larger amount by comparison.

As I mentioned above, this latter philosophy has favor in America and that is what the current budget closing proposal in Maryland is based on. Which approach is fairer is really a matter of how one defines “fair.”

(Of course, on the fringe, one could argue that the only truly “fair” way is for everyone to pay an EQUAL amount – say, $20,000 per person. So, if $20,000 is all you make, you hand all of it over. And if you make $1,000,000 – well, you will still have $980,000 left after paying your share.)

I feel like a tiered but flat tax system is the answer:

A system that takes away virtually all deductions big and small, and as a result forces the mega wealthy and corporations to actually pay their fair share instead of ducking much of it.

The problem with this country's tax system is whether it's individual or business wealth, it's set up to screw the mid to upper "middle" class/true small business owners.

No mega corporation actually pays anywhere near the actual US corporate tax rate. Yet they'll lobby and publicly cry that they are "Forced" to send jobs overseas because they are taxed too much. It's a farce.
Meanwhile the small business owner with 5 employees gets abused by the system.

Nor do you see the millionaires of the country actually paying that 39.6% tax rate on the bulk of their income. Same applies to mega corporations.

Taxes in general can be reduced without actually hurting incoming revenue. The reason people gripe about the 'wealthy' is because not only are they the ones best capable of affording taxes but they actually get the tax code written to favor them.

Of course, the flip side is by doing this, then these mega wealthy corporations threathen to leave, essentially holding the country hostage. To that, I say let'em leave. There's a reason we're America, and not running slave labor like much of the rest of the world. If they want to be in bed with that, good riddance.
What one person calls 'socialism' another calls 'oligarchy'.

Paul:
I am a free agent - neither conservative or liberal. I guess I am a member of the math party. Math meaning government should spend less than they take in, and should aggressively work to make sure accountability at all levels of govt should be the goal. In that light - the Bush/Cheney administration was terrible - and Republicans who blindly supported them were rightfully voted out. Obama/Biden are bad. I am not sure who is worse, both administrations have badly damaged our country - Bush/Cheney with our soldiers coming back missing limbs, eyes, and so much other damage. Obama/Biden for focusing on tearing our country apart between those who have done well financially and those who have not. You need to out work other people - this gives you an opportunity to do well - no guarantees.

Well said. Unfortunately too many Democrats use the failed Bush/Cheney administration as justification for Obama/Biden failing.

I am sick and tired of every time someone finds a problem with Obama's leadership of the country, the Democrats start with "but George Bush ..." or "Obama inherited ..."

Both of these men are miserable failures.

RMI: Obama's better, but he's certainly not one of the nation's top 10 presidents either.
He's gotten us out of the Iraq mistake, and he's almost done with the Afghanistan one (although it sure helps that they want us out just as much).
The "war on terror" has cost this country un-necessary trillions, and has been a net loss. Of money, of our rights, I could go on.
He's been trying to begin phasing out the Bush tax cuts - starting with the top 1-2%, but again, it's a nonstarter in the House. It’s sad, because the BTC’s should’ve never been implemented to begin with. Additionally, as if anyone REALLY thought they’d expire in 2010, riiight...
I'd also argue that Republicans have been tearing this country about for decades before Obama, by gradually crippling the middle class through 'trickle down' economics. Trickle Down economics - once supported by me - has proven to be a trojan horse.
Obama's doing the reverse as you say (re: class warfare) - but is just doing it publicly, whereas Republicans have been more sneaky about it, that's all.

The choice this year will not be between Obama and the gold standard; it will be between Obama and Mitt Romney. Presently, if I understand Romney proposals, he advocates policies identical to Bush policies. I agree with you, Tim, that Bush was worse than Obama. So it looks like four more years of Obama is the better bet.

Piotr: I'm voting for Obama as well, but ultimately it's more for social reasons then economic. The Republicans are far too socially out of the secular sphere these days for my taste.
That and I don't trust Mitt Romney at all. He says one thing one week, something else the next. I don't need that kind of instability in my president.

The economists I believe in say trickle down is what has saved the middle class thus far. I really like the Austrian Economists. I really like Sowell & Williams.

But now we are into a "My economist can beat up your economist." argument

In terms of Iraq and Afghanistan. Bush blew it. Obama blew it. And now he is getting out with his tail between his legs. Almost anyone else would have figured a much better way of disengaging.

And if you really cared about the social issues, you would be a Ron Paul supporter.

Anyone who votes for Obama is voting for bigger government, slower growth, more taxes on all, and increased invasion of privacy.

Romney is not much better, but the Ron Paul people should keep him from implementing most of his bad ideas.

And ALL politicians lie and flip flop as convenient. Do you really want a list of all the Obama flip-flops posted here?

And since Obama would be lame duck, he would be free to revert to his socialist views with impunity. We already saw a taste of this with his "hot mike" error telling the Russians to wait until after the elections, he will have a much freer hand on giving in to their demands.

Tim,

I totally agree with you that Romney is most elusive (perhaps especially on social issues). I think it would be naïve to assume that his most recently articulated position on any issue is his real position. So that given that on many issues (ranging from abortion to women’s health to gay marriage) he has over time articulated positions spanning the gamut from sometimes radical right to most liberal left, the electorate is really on a guess here.

I guess where this matter the most is in having some idea of what kind of judicial appointments he would make. And given the span of his stated positions over the years, I really feel I have no clue.

AG: You bring up some very fair and reasonable points in your last post.

I'm with you on the economics argument. There are two sides and I suspect no shortage of arguments for both sides of the TD economics argument.

I am also very concerned at what a lame duck Obama would do. Although it couldn't actually be worse then lame duck Bush, it doesn't mean I openly welcome the opportunity for him to get close to it.

Really, I am just grossly disappointed with the one-sided unrelenting views of the Republicans. No compromise. Obama's been compromising since 2010, but I certainly am not naive enough to expect he'll continue to do so if he didn't actually NEED to. Divided government can and has worked in the past, but it's not working today, and I'm personally assessing the bulk of the blame on the R's.

Adding the more extreme social views of the Republican party today just pushes it over the top. Once again, I like probably many folks in our community here are stuck with having to select their perception of the lesser of two problematic presidential candidates.

As far as Ron Paul, I agree with you for the most part.

I was (I guess one of the few) a Jon Huntsman supporter. I still feel he (now was) the most balanced candidate across the board - and still a strong fiscal conservative.
I would strongly consider Ron Paul over Romney or Obama though.

On the "extreme social views of the Republican party" that is nonsense. Watch what they do, not what they say. Republicans, for example, have always gone on record as being pro-life. But has anything really changed through Reagan, Bush the First and Bush the Second?

And in terms of Obama being worse, why do you believe he can't do worse? Bush's spending was a travesty. Obama doubled down on it, Bush put forth the patriot act, Obama pushed for making it permanent. Obama increased Govt intrusion beyond that through executive order. Name one reduction in the intrusion of the Govt under Obama.

Just look at the increase in TSA horror stories under Obama. Almost everything Geo Bush screwed up, Obama made worse. To be honest, he did not mess up everything, but then a stopped clock is right twice a day.

The cabinet Dept of Homeland Security and the TSA were created under GWB in 2002. Both parties approved.
It’s true, that the enhanced patdown procedure kicked in under Obama- November 2010. It was a specific response to the original underwear bomber.
I’ve personally refused to fly ever since. I don’t recall Congressional or Executive Branch reaction pro or against this measure. I find it difficult at this point to ‘blame Obama’ specifically for the enhanced pat downs. It’s more of a unilateral failure of our leadership growing government un-necessarily. Supposedly, DHS is one of the largest cabinets now – over 200k employees.
As far as doubling down on spending, look at the bag of crap he was given. He had no political choice but to continue fighting Bush’s wars. He had a nation in the worst recession since the 1930’s so government services were required to keep people afloat. I will agree that he really had no business pushing through the PPAHA, however let’s not forget that this ‘individual mandate’ that Republicans are saying is unconstitutional was something their own party developed the idea of 20 years earlier! A Democrat implements it, and oh boy, here comes big government! If a Republican actually followed through on the idea back then, it’d have been touted as a cost reduction for the average person as there would be less people without insurance bleeding out everyone else to cover their “lack of coverage”.

(more below)

As far as the social stuff, although the platform of the party hasn’t changed through the years, the vigor and intensity of the Tea Party concern me. They are literally cannibalizing the party. Boehner can’t even keep them in line.

As far as the Patriot Act goes, I decided to look up your claim and it would seem it was Republicans who wanted to make the Patriot Act permanent:
http://www.infowars.com/republicans-move-to-make-patriot-act-permanent/
Obama, meanwhile, only signed the 4 year extension at the very last moment. This actually jogged my memory when I did a quick look up on it, this was the ol’ “autopen incident”. Needless to say, both parties votes to extend the Patriot Act and it wasn’t close. There’s blame for both parties on this issue. It's not an Obama issue anymore then the fact he'd probably get skewered by Republicans if he even suggested they put an end to the act.

Tim, the gist of your post is that it is all Bush's fault, right?

On the social stuff. Don't confuse the platform for what gets done. The platform and election speeches are just a technique to pander for votes. What really matters are the laws that are passed.

GWB did sign TSA in. That is a reason why he is an awful president. The only people fighting TSA were Republicans. Between Bush, the Rino's and the Dems it was signed into law.

Obama robo-signed Patriot act to avoid blame. That is his style. Look how often he voted "present" in the Senate.

Obama also has to take the lion's share of the credit for enhanced pat down (which you said). The cancer scanners (aka naked body scanner, which the EU has outlawed for health reasons). Also, look the the WSJ a couple of weeks ago for an article on all the things TSA is goofing up since Obama took office. I fly a lot for work, and I always choose the TSA sexual assault over the scanner.

On TD economics, that is still under debate. I believe in it, and there are plenty of economists on each side.

And I can't believe you are complaining about the Republicans not compromising. Neither side is. Sure you will find a small example here or there, but neither side is really compromising. I love it when the Republicans put out a proposal, then Obama puts out something competing. He then criticizes them for not taking his proposal since it is a compromise and common sense, even though there was no negotiation with anyone outside of the whitehouse.

As far as spending being Bush's fault, how about GM bailout, second stimulus, cash for clunkers, et al. They were all Bush's fault too?

Look, I think Bush was awful. I thought he was one of the worst presidents ever. Then Obama lapped him on the race for being the worst.

The problem with that attitude is it assumes nobody gives a crap about what happens to the neighbor as long as it doesn't affect me. Trust me they'll burn though what they can squeeze out of those that make $150K and then they'll turn around and be looking at you. That's like not calling the police when the neighbors house is being robbed because...heck, why should I care it's not my house. Mighty neighborly of you.

So some sort of slippery slope, eh?

I have great admiration for the author,Blair Lee. He is a rare Democrat who understands economics and doesn't feel the need to "follow the leader" with O'Malley group-think/group-speak.

How are you planning on keeping the wealthiest 16% from moving to Virginia?

AG,

Not everyone of us (the 16 percenters) is as selfish as you postulate, and many of us like it here very much despite the need of contributing a little more.

Personally, I would never want to live in Virginia for, oh, so many reasons.

It's actually fine to have evolving views on things. I don't sweat a guy changing his views "over the years". People's views on things change with experience and evolve over their lifetime. Mine certainly have.

This guy is 'evolving' at a much faster clip then desired out of a local politician, much less a future president.

So point it out. The budget is public. Show us where the waste is.

Look at the number of employees per resident. I heard Marvin Mandel on the radio several years ago. He said Maryland had about 20% more employees than they needed if they ran efficiently.

It’s easy to throw out random numbers without support. Perhaps Mr. Mandel can run for Governor in 2014, specify where he would make the 20% in cuts and see if his program wins voter approval.

You do not know Maryland history. Marvin Mandel is 92 years old and was the governor in the 1970's

Also, on Marvin Mandel, he was a Democrat. And earlier someone posted a link to an article from Blair Lee on taxes in Maryland. Blair Lee's father was Marvin Mandel's LT Governor.

It is amazing how the Democratic Party has taken a hard left turn from fiscal responsibility in the last 40 years.

Mandel was also notoriously corrupt. Like Agnew-level corrupt.

Well Able if that were true, he is a Maryland Democrat so that makes him different than most if not all the other Maryland Democrats how?

Jeff: Ha, that was actually me, not AG

@CerahAnd
You are welcome, it does make for some interesting reading....unless of course if the reader is part of the problem.
I agree with your notion that the general populace will only "eat what they are fed" and thereby they miss alot of culinary delights out there.
Stay free thinking & independent.........choose your own meals....

It's the Tea Party. He wasn't crazy or rabid enough for them.

Jeff: The smart person is one who realizes that he doesn't know everything, and keeps his mind relatively open. I continue to learn things on Patch from others, especially about the local political scene.

Yes, it's tough keeping up on these threads once they get past 150 replies or so. :)

Hertz....sounds German, should we talk about your heritage? In the past few years budgets have been cut and continue. Maryland may not be in the poor house as much as others but their have been attempts to cut. (A recession budget may be a some hyperbole) The federal government has been cutting the money it gives to the states for programs so the states then the counties then the towns have to make up for those short comings.

The Arts are typically the first to lose funding when things are going bad. Artists spend their whole lives making something from nothing. The Arts make the bad times not so bad and the good times a little better. If Arts only took money from those who were willing to pay then our culture would not continue to grow. Our Arts programs are what has made America a leader around the globe. Without Arts you don't have free thinking and innovation.

I agree with your death by 1000 cuts- but $256 (88.1, 8:05amish 5/15/12) for those making more then $150k is a small amount. The amount increases upto 3k for 1mil. The cost of everything continues to raise, for the general public and for the government. How do we make up that change without raising more revenue and keeping the level of life we have come to enjoy?

Dingo:

1. Please define "cut" (as a reference to a budget) for me.

2. Now, show me where, year over year, the MD budgets have been cut. Find a year where spending is less than the previous year.

You made me laugh with "the federal government has been cutting the money it gives..."

GIVES. Look that up after you look up too.

You sound like another socialist.

Cut= Reduce over all spending
gives= Taxes come in to both the state and fed. The Fed gives states money from their account to cover things that the state has agreed to cover. The Fed has been giving less money or cutting programs completely and now the state has to either let those programs die or pick up the tab.

We have been a socialist country for years and years. We hide it by giving the money to private companies. We require business to do things we want them to and them give them money to do it. We help the sick, the poor, the stupid and look the other way when the rich capitalize on the nations socialism. We educate our people for free, we protect them, we help them gain advantage as a group and as an individual.

We are all Socialized Capitalist.

Dingo moronically said: "We educate our people for free..."

Really? For free? You clearly have no concept how government works. I have some news for you...government doesn't provide anything "for free."

In the last four years I think the Airport has improved. I know the port has improved. We have new roads and freashly paved roads. Maryland schools are top rated in the nation. What did you want? What is missing that you think Maryland should have done in the last four years? New buiness have come because our work force is so good. Our air and water should be cleaner but we have several major cities in the area and new manufacturing coming online so.....What did you want? Another sports team with a free stadium and tax breaks?

Dingo: what is missing? A lot of MY money. I don't need the state gov't to provide for my every need. I can take care of myself just fine. I want lower taxes and less regulation. That's what I want.

Tell me, how is it that states with no state income tax manage to get by with a much lower overall tax burden than MD?

Dio Dingo ,Yes Maryland colleges improved but Marylander s CAN"T get into our colleges we paid for .Of course the airport and port improved they are ways out of this state. Where is the New Business ? It doesn't matter the king has spoken .They aren't even looking at options the assembly will close as scheduled tomorrow.No debates, No voice , No taxpayer counts That is what this special session has shown .Do you Think they could of had the decency not to Tell all the TV stations closing will be on schedule as announced on the news this afternoon. Did ANY LEGISLATORS listen? DID you EVEN LISTEN ? Oh the cesspool of Annapolis Or O'Malley's Alley .

Once federal spending is decreased, Maryland is toast. Maryland are going the way of California and Greece.

The question is not will it happen, but when will it happen?

Clearly most Marylanders believe as you do, that there is a never ending spigot of money flowing from the federal government to the people of Maryland.

The big question that those not living off the largess of the government should ask, do you want to move now, save money, and establish yourself in a new area, OR do you want to wait for the crash?

Piotr,
" I want to share mine, especially if I got lucky enough to have more than others and more than I need."

Comptroller of Maryland
Revenue Administration Division
110 Carroll Street
Annapolis, Maryland 21411

We need more Piotr :) send money ASAP!!!!

As for the millionaire thing:
"Phoenix defines a millionaire household as one with $1 million or more in investable or liquid assets (excluding sponsored retirement plans and real estate). Rounding out the top ten states in millionaires per population are New Jersey (7.19%), Connecticut (7.13%), Massachusetts (6.41%), Alaska (6.39%), Virginia (6.26%), New Hampshire (6.06%), California (6.01%), and the District of Columbia (5.88%)."

This appears to have alot to do with real estate (location, location, location) and not that Maryland is somehow superior. I imagine you have alot of power-brokers living in Maryland and working in D.C., afterall the very wealthy are now the Feds' :)

Also.....do we really want all of those nasty 1% er's living here anyway! As for the population growing.....let's just say it's not the most affluent. So we live in a "utopia", we have tons of millionaires, folks are "flocking" to the Old Line State. My question would be with all of these new taxpayers and wealthy ones to boot, why are we in such dire straits financially as a state? Doesn't really make sense does it?

Jeff,

The point is that we are not in “dire straits.” AG apparently has you convinced that you are. But here you sit in front of your computer, enjoying life, and, unless you make over $100,000, you are not even being asked to contribute to remedy the present situation. How does that put YOU in “dire straits?”

My situation, slightly different: I am being asked to contribute, apparently $150 more than I paid in the current year. Somehow this also is not making me feel like I am in “dire straits.” My kids are getting a great education; I feel safe in my house – what is not to like?

I just do not feel this great governmental intrusion (unlike Virginia, where a woman is forced to get a medically unnecessary ultrasound and pay for it herself if she dares to consider having an abortion – don’t get me started!).

Mr. Socialism: Perhaps you don't have the standing to lecture me about capitalism.

You keep using the word contribute. Use confiscate instead...it's more appropriate.

How about you move...and take a bunch of your socialist friends with you, or stop trying to turn MD into your socialist homeland.

AG: LOL, Maryland will not be toast. Maryland is in excellent financial shape, relative to other states in the country. Maryland's debt to GDP ratio is barely 12%. I did a quick debt ratio check on about 15 states manually (and geographically spread out), and Maryland was 3rd lowest. Delaware actually was lower then Maryland, that surprised me.

In fact, I'm more concerned with income at the county level, but Kamenetz has done a solid job in this aspect thus far (and I didn't vote for him, either).

Have you been watching the news? Do you see what is happening in California. Have you seen the pressure to cut federal spending.

Understanding economics is very different from fear mongers.

But if it makes you feel better, put your head back in the sand.

You are going to get hit by a train that is coming right at you

How is our situation similar to California?

Pitor ... you seem to be under the misguided impression that the only tax in Maryland is the state income tax. Or perhaps just like all the other democrats in Maryland you only want to focus on the one tax that is the only one being increased on so called "rich people" who can supposedly afford this one little extra tax burden. Liar Liar Pants on Fire!!!

If Owe'Malley had his way the state sales tax would have been raised from 6 to 7% and expanded to gasoline sales and over 40 services that do not provide an actual product as required in the state constitution's definition of a sales tax. He raised the "flush tax" by 100% (doubled for the mathematically challenged) to replenish the money he stole from the Chesapeake Bay Restoration Trust Fund to balance his previous 4 budget increases. He raised every highway, bridge, and tunnel toll in the state by over 100%. He raised most of the "user fees" such as car registration, title fees, hunting and fishing licenses, and even marriage licenses by as much as 50 to 150%. Every one of these taxes and fees will have a far more adverse affect on the poor, working class, and middle class families the democrats claim to be "helping" but all they do is take from them at every turn.

And Able I am sure you are going to ask for proof but you can do your own homework.

Able: Our situation is nowhere near what California's is. Not even in the same time zone.

Austerity in Europe? First define it for me. Then show me where it's been implemented...it's just a big myth. Governments everywhere (with literally 1 or 2 exceptions) continue to spend more every single year.

MD doesn't have a revenue problem...it has a spending problem.

Many European countries are cutting billions out of their budgets. Laying off teachers/firefighters/cops/office workers/sanitation workers, not construction/maintaining roads, cutting social programs and so on. The US is doing that while keeping a military budget that is larger then rest of the world combined. (China maybe getting closer to our spending) If you look across europe you will see it implemented. You know you are on the internet....you can look it up, have it defined without looking so bad. Governments, like business and private individuals are always paying for every year. The prices are always raising. Cost of Living! Those few years when the Cost of Living goes down governments use any saving to make up where they have been shorting people for years. If the US is becoming more Socialist then move! We are a democracy- of the people for the people. I'm sure there are a good number of places that would love for you to come with our strong currency to help prop up their no rules do anything no tax failing economy.

Dingo: Those are just words. Show me a graph or table that shows "many European countries" have cut billions out of their budgets. It's a myth. Austerity is a much overused word by socialists like you and Piotr. If a government only increases spending 1 or 2 percent year over year you somehow confuse that as austerity.

I bet that a few years ago there were fools just like him in Greece saying "everything is fine...nothing to worry about here."

So deadbeats like you don't have to? Everyone wants a free ride...

Able: Jeff is not asking for a free ride. On the contrary, he's asking to keep more of his own money. It's people like you and Piotr that seem hell bent on taking from the productive members of society so that you can dole out free rides to the non-productive members.

It's interesting the libs seem to understand that taxing behaviors usually lead to reductions in those behaviors...that's one of the reasons you love taxing smoking...you think you'll help reduce smoking. But you seem to lose sight of it when you tax work. It never occurs to you that you might end up with less people working.

Similarly...I'm not sure you understand that when government subsidizes certain behaviors you might end up with more of those behaviors.

Pretty funny first time poster humor, but I don't think Richard believes it is funny.

Dad, is that you?

I understand if you get some cream or salve that will lessen the "hertz". ;-))

Maybe to you socialism-lite is OK. Have you ever met a tax hike you didn't fall in love with at first sight?

For many of us socialism-lite is not acceptable...because we know where it's headed.

Does freedom mean anything to you? Are you OK with a nanny state regulating everything you do...including the bags you use at a store?

Piotr:
The justification for the ever widening tax burden on the citizen's doesn't end does it? Again Piotr.......it's the big picture, the total package, but then again any tax increase of any nature can always be justified can't it.

I used to think you were somewhat fiscally responsible and that's why I supported you for Mayor. Now I'm not so sure anymore......I may have chosen poorly.

What level of taxation is not socialism? Percentage and income brackets, please.

Pitor ... perhaps you were not here in the USA when those evil little plastic bags were the Saviors of our Trees and the right thing to use to be "respectful of nature" as you put it by reducing our demand for paper bags. And as you once again seem to forget in your little liberal elitist utopian bubble, you can "afford" the extra cost to buy groceries or your kids clothing or whatever you spend your abundant wealth on and bring it home in a plastic bag from the store. Unfortunately the single mother of one child working three jobs or the married couple both with full time private sector jobs earning $76,000 each with three kids and one on the way have to keep their household's budget balanced just like the state, only without a Transportation Trust Fund or Federal Stimulus Package to offset the added expense of something as petty and pointless as a "bag tax." But as long as you liberal elitists don't forget this is all for the better good of everyone in Maryland I guess it is a sacrifice worth making. Oh except for the people working in the carpet factory that was using those recycled plastic bags to make carpets who will soon be out of a job if the brilliant minds of democrats like Ike Leggett and Marty Owe'Malley have their way and tax those evil bags into extinction.

Able Baker,

Socialism: an economic theory or system in which the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned by the community collectively, usually through the state. It is characterized by production for use rather than profit, by equality of individual wealth, by the absence of competitive economic activity, and, usually, by government determination of investment, prices, and production levels.

None of this has anything to do with the level of taxation.

In Maryland, arguably, roads, schools and public safety are run under this model and few argue that this is not as it should be.

Otherwise, Maryland engages in nothing that even remotely resembles socialism: “characterized by production for use rather than profit?” “absence of competitive economic activity?” “government determination of investment, prices, and production levels?”

Show me!

We are democrats (small “d”) and capitalists through and through!

JustABill:

Of course, the families in your example, above, are not required to purchase plastic bags – they can save money by bringing reusable bags when they shop.

Also, I submit to you that, having a family of four children (as in your second example) is not an entitlement, it’s a choice. And if one cannot afford that many children then perhaps finding some other recreation than making more children might be the responsible course. You do endorse individual responsibility, yes? (And BTW: one of the reasons we need to be so taxed is to educate these four children that the family you cite decided to bless our community with.)

WOW Pitor, Where do I begin? You not only continue to prove what an elitist you truly are but you really just demonstrated your far left communist leaning ways with this last batch of comments. How could you hold an elected office of any kind and not have even the slightest clue how our tax system works much less the difference between freedom and oppression? You see Pitor, here in the United States of America people are not limited to only one child like they are in Communist China. Choosing to have one child, four children, or twenty children is a right not an entitlement. Then again you totally avoided the real point of my comment. The point is we are not talking about just one tiny little harmless income tax increase, we are talking about hundreds of tax and fee increases since Gov. Owe'Malley has taken office. The "Bag Tax" is just one that like so many others has the most adverse affect on the very groups of people you democrats continue to falsely claim to be looking out for their best interest. As for your lack of knowledge of our tax system, key public services such as education, police, and fire fighters are not funded with the Bag Tax, income taxes, or even sales tax. They are funded with individual property and real estate property taxes. So even if we had been stuck with the alleged "Doomsday Budget" that still increased spending by $1.5 BILLION it would not have caused even $1.00 to have been cut from schools, police, or fire fighter's budgets. Get a clue man!

JustABill,

Only a fringe liberal would argue that one has an absolute right to make twenty children only to visit the upkeep of those children on his neighbor, or all of his neighbors (i.e. the taxpayer). Congratulations JustABill, you’re a fringe liberal.

I will cling on to my conservative values of personal responsibility and counsel that one should sew one’s oats only to the extent that one can afford to take care of the resulting babies created.

As far as taxation is concerned, of course the state contributes to schools and public safety (are you familiar with the State Police?). Please study the state budget!

And finally, on the issue or communism, you just need to take a class or something (not rely on Fox News for your crude understanding). I have lived under communism. I escaped communism. Enough said.

Pitor ... If I may borrow a line from the great President Ronald Reagan, "There you go again!" You take one tiny little part of my last comment and use it completely out of context to avoid the real topic. I never said anything about nor even remotely implied that the single mother of ONE child or the married couple with THREE children or even the fictional family willfully having 20 children would, should, or did impose the financial burden of their children onto the tax payers of Maryland. That is why I gave very clear examples and explained their need to work to support their families but do not want to work to support the over spending lunatics we have running things in Annapolis.

You ask if I am familiar with the State Police and the answer is yes, far more than you will ever be in your lifetime and the same can be said for our state budget. Yes, money from the state budget is allocated to help fund police, fire, and schools, but that money is primarily sourced from Property Tax, through the counties and not the bag tax, not the tobacco tax, not the 200% increased highway, tunnel, and bridge tolls, and ultimately not the newly passed "rich people tax" either. Core essentials such as first responders and primary education are not the sources of most of our state's spending problems and a $1.5 Billion spending increase is not a Doomsday Budget. It's not even a bad hair day budget.

Dingo: Since you've noticed the fact that some prices are increasing, maybe you can explain why the prices of computers have been falling ever since they were invented, despite the fact that billions more people use them now compared to 1980.

Increases in demand do not automatically lead to increases in prices...though I'm not sure you'll understand the concept.

And...where are these countries where all their citizens can get cheap fuel?

Perhaps it's time for you to brush up on your economics training.

Just as others are frustrated by the phoney accounting of the left. I think everyone appreciates the positive and useful things that government does but you know as well as everyone else that for every million dollars wisely spent there's another million going a sink hole. To point to police or firefighters to justify endless spending is just of game of hide and seek with the truth.

Piotr confuses the issue with: "We are presently paying a lot less in taxes than we did under Clinton"

And tell me Mr. Socialist, how much are we SPENDING compared to the Clinton years. Taxation is only part of the issue. The HUGE deficits caused by outrageous spending increases eventually have to be paid for, though you probably subscribe to the insane Paul Krugman theory that it doesn't matter since we owe it to ourselves.

One thing I've noticed over the years, very few libs/socialists campaign on anything other than being a fiscal conservative (Mondale was somewhat unique). So sure, you might have campaigned as a fiscal conservative, but the your comments on this thread show your true colors...you've never met a tax hike you didn't approve of.

MD spending (in billions)

2000 $30.6
2001 $33.2
2002 $35.7
2003 $37.1
2004 $38.5
2005 $41.4
2006 $44.2
2007 $47.3
2008 $50.7
2009 $54.3

Now, tell me this is not a spending problem.

You fools always...and I mean ALWAYS...resort to the same tired BS. Whenever someone mentions cutting spending, the standard lib reply is "we can't cut police, fire or schools." It's as if you can't imagine that government spends money on anything else.

And we are certainly not paying less in taxes than we did under Clinton. Tax payment have consistently averaged around 18-19% of GDP for decades, regardless of what the marginal tax RATES are set at. Another truism of libs is they can't seem to fathom that changes in tax rates cause people to change behaviors. Do you think if you were to jack the top marginal rate up to 99% that people would continue going to work every day?

Richard,
It’s not an issue about what I “campaigned” on. I was on the City Council for four years and was the most fiscally conservative member. Indeed, I argued for cutting programs and in 2011 voted against the City budget because it needlessly raised taxes.
If you are going to attack me: please at least check my voting record!

Pitor ... it is easy to define yourself as "the most fiscally conservative" in a group of people that are insanely fiscally irresponsible. That does not make you a true fiscal conservative. Then again why let reality get in the way of a good campaign slogan.

Piotr: I'm attacking the very words you are saying on this thread. By those words you are not even close to being a real fiscal conservative. You seem to fit in very well with Owe'Malley and his merry band of tax hikers.

Well, you are indeed correct about the recent tax collections as a percentage of GDP. However, it's not because anyone lowered taxes, it's because the labor force has fallen to about what it was 30 years ago. In other words, millions fewer people are working and paying taxes. Those of use that are still working have not seen any reductions in taxes, and in fact, most states have been increasing taxes.

Now, look back over the previous 4 decades and you see that tax collections have been remarkably stable considering the wide variations in marginal tax rates during those years. What this shows is that people indeed change behaviors when politicians monkey with marginal tax rates. It's similar to the idea that if a thief announced that he was going to rob you tomorrow, you might hide your valuables today. Libs don't seem to understand that. They assume that rich taxpayers will just continue to do everything the same while bending over for the government.

France is venturing into this area with a new Socialist President that is proposing a top marginal rate of 75%. Anyone want to take a wager that they will collect anything close to what they think they'll collect? See also CA, whose deficit just exploded to $16 billion from a $9 billion prediction made 5 months ago.

Just sayin'.

Good Richard, you and I agree that the last three years tax receipts have fallen significantly. I would argue that was not Obama's fault, you may differ. I will agree that over the last 40 years spending program's like those that allow a widow/er to collect SSA benefits for the entire time she/he are not remarried are silly. But hopefully you and I would agree the Bush tax cuts were unnecessary and have contributed significantly to our financial problems.

Paul: I hate to dash your hopes, but I sense there is very little on which you and I would agree. My complaints about the Bush tax cuts were they weren't big enough, and they weren't permanent.

I think Bush was an awful President for many reasons, but his tax cuts are not one of them. And I doubt it will surprise to hear that I think Obama is an order of magnitude worse than Bush. But I'm not worried about assigning blame for the current trouble...I'm concerned with getting out of it. I get the idea that some people (Piotr, and perhaps you) think the best way out is to close your eyes and let the government solve all our problems. All I want from the government is to get the hell out of the way...lower taxes, reduce regulations, and create an environment where the entrepreneurs of our society can create the jobs necessary to get people working again.

Got desperate, eh?

Piotr:
I agree with you, but apparently Steny Hoyer feels differently.

At the 50 year celebration of Norman Stone: May 2, 2012

“Norman Stone is one of the most steadfast, most trustworthy, no-malarkey people that I know,” said Steny Hoyer, one of those young senators who would become Senate president in 1974, the youngest in Maryland history. Stone was “one of the people I counted on most.”

Hoyer’s youthful reddish hair has turned silver and he is minority leader of the U.S. House of Representatives where’s he’s served for 30 years. Speaking to Stone, Hoyer said, “You’re one of those politicians who bring honor and respect to the profession about which we feel so strongly.”

Piotr:
Don't you just love politics..............

Jeff,

Steny Hoyer is a very forgiving guy. I am not so forgiving toward those who find themselves on the wrong side of civil rights issues. I am sure Mr. Stone is a nice person, but if he does not bring meaningful analysis and leadership on defining issues, he should, in my opinion, step aside from elected office.

Those higher numbers include the federal share of MD spending

Favorite word for libs: "fair."

I'm glad you think you can define the word "fair" for the rest of the world.

When you go out to eat with other people do you divide up the bill in a progressive way based on incomes?

Why are you OK with a progressive tax system, but not promoting a progressive pricing system for products? Shouldn't a car cost less if you make less?

Why are you progressives so focused on money? Since I work 60-80 hours a week I have a lot less free time than the freeloaders of society. Shouldn't we try to equalize free time too by making the freeloaders come and mow my lawn?

Should pretty girls be made uglier to equalize their looks with ugly girls? Wouldn't that be more fair?

Should smart people be able to get away with being smarter? Or should be give them partial lobotomies to equalize intelligence? Wouldn't that be more fair?

You don't own the rights to define the word fair. Your view of the word if far different than mine.

Richard,

Progressive tax is in vogue in the industrialized world. I am sorry that you don’t like it.

And yes, if I go out to eat with friends who are less able to pay, I offer to pick up the check, don’t you?

But does the waiter force you to pay for the dinner of others under a threat of violence?

AG,

The cool thing is that we get to choose the restaurants we go to and the state (or in some cases country) we live in.

Why did you move to my country and my former state and work to change them?

Hmmm, "my country", "my former state", may I ask your heritage? Just curious when your ancestors moved here and it became yours. Just askin?

Mid 1700's

AG, and you took it from whom?

My ancestors took it from the people who took it from the people who took it from the people who took it from the people....

Hmmm, sounds like you are advocating violence.

Pam,

Thanks for that perspective. But why don’t you just move to Delaware? Is it your job that keeps you here (we do have great jobs in Maryland and one of the lowest unemployment levels)? Or do you like the schools here? Something must be keeping you. What is it?

@Pam, I do the same. I stop in DE on the way back from visiting family in PA, when I need major items.
@Piotr, why dont YOU MOVE back to socialist Europe and see what you get there. Maybe you can join all the other freeloaders complaining that the government has to cut back their socialist programs because they are out of money and need all the other countries that have a free economy to bail them out. You are a left winfg jackass (there I said it). You people don't have a clue. The reason is, OWEmalley thinks he is going to be president one day and he is such an idiot that even my VERY democrat family, Union leaders, etc in PA think he is an idiot (which he is). The only way to get rid of these "clingons" is to pass TERM LIMITS on ALL senate and congressial reps.

B Allen,

“Why dont YOU MOVE back to socialist Europe and see what you get there.”

Well, mostly because I am an American and I like our democratically elected government here in Maryland.

You are the one that seems to have a problem with democracy, so perhaps you might try some of the Middle Eastern countries – see how you like dictatorships.

Term limits is an interesting concept, but I thought all you righties were against it (George Will rails against them).

(Of course our governor is term limited, so you get another chance to put up someone brilliant like Erlich in two years.)

@Piotr, typical left wing nutjob comeback. You are NOT what you claim to be. You are one of those who feel that you know what is best. I could care less about what you are or what you think you are. You have a one track mind and only see what you believe, which is typical of you people. I have NO problem with democracy. What I have a problem with is people like you whose egos are so inflated and you pontificate at great lengths as to your regressive thought process. Americans DO NOT want european socialism dictatorships here, if you want it, you go back to where you came from. You can still have "mommy government" take care of you there. Maryland is a sorry ass excuse of a democratic government when it is run by a bunch of DUMBocrats. Just look at the socialist republic of CA, MD is the CA wannabe of the east. As for term limits, conservatives are for it, in order to get the freeloading dems who have NEVER had a real job or had to make a payroll in their life, out after they did their term. BTW, working as a "community organizer" for a scumbag group like ACORN is NOT what anyone would call a real job. Stick to music, because you are worthless in the political arena. Our democracy was built on "WE THE PEOPLE", not "let the government tell you what you need". Don't preach to me because I put up with you people for 30 yrs in the dem party and your half witted thought process. REMEMBER: Your Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity

@Richard, GREAT point. I wonder how long it took OWEmalley to come up with that ponsi scheme. I can see him sitting in his office each day trying to think up another scheme to pick out pockets and to as the idiots like Piotr and Paulie keep defending his sorry ass, "progressive" tax which is BS. It is REgressive. Bottom like, cut the frivilous spending, cut the handouts to those who want to sit on their asses and remain on the goverment coffers, let businesses thrive through lower taxes and less regulations, get rid of the libs, socialists, idiots, knuckleheads or whatever else they call themselves these days. Pass TERM LIMITS on these people so we can continually have a change. BTW, I don't listen to a word those people like Piotr and Paulie say, I cannot stand egotistical nutcases. All I have to say to them is that Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity. I feeI sorry for them THAT they are so stupid to fall for the lies and deciet by OWEmalley and his kool aide drinking associates. NOT!!!!!

@Pam, I think a lot of the people who voted for these idiots don't pay taxes AT ALL. It's a kick in the a$$ for the people who DO pay taxes, though, isn't it? And I think that's the #1 reason it's so hard (and getting harder) to change things in this state :-\

In MoCo, they say they are going to "reduce" our burden...they are only going to raise our taxes "slightly"...What they need to do is reduce spending. Hell, just because MoCo schools has a surplus of $33M, the council is ALL up in arms that they did not spend it over the last couple years. The village idiots on the county council told the school system to reduce costs and they did, now those nitwits think it is a bad thing to SAVE by reducing costs.